Thurak's New Machine - Any Recommended Changes?

[Shotz]

So yea, with the asplosions of my laptop, and a slight influx of money coming in, in under a month, I've decided to build a new desktop. As it'll be primarily used to code uni work, play Wow, watch TV and movies and play WoW, I've gone for a slightly more inclined build to gaming. I was just wondering if anyone had heard of any bad experiences with any of it, or whether I've gone horribly wrong somewhere, as I am rather wont to do xD


Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 Stepping (2.4GHz 1066MHz) Socket 775 L2 8MB Cache (2x4MB (4MB per core pair) Retail Boxed Processor - £168.95
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/131950

MSI P45 Neo-F Socket 775 8 channel audio ATX Motherboard - £78.87
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/145707

Asus VH222H 22" Widescreen True HD LCD Monitor - Black - £145.99
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?ASU-VH222

Novatech GeForce 9800GTX+ SLI 512MB GDDR3 - £107.11
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?NOV-GTXPB

OCZ 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC6400 Titanium Memory CL4(4-4-4-15) - £39.12
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/154644

Seagate 160GB Hard Drive SATAII 7200rpm 8MB Cache - £31.68
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/149458

LG Electronics Blu-Ray & HD-DVD-Rom Combo 16x DVDRW Black - £65.92
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/139985

Galaxy iii Case with LED fan and 450W PSU - around £30
http://www.redstore.com/BOSCAS025

Razer Lycosa UK Gaming Keyboard - £52.99
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/143289

Keysonic Black Wireless 2.4Ghz HTPC Media Keyboard with Integrated Touch-Pad - £27.98
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/139757

Logitech G5 Laser Gaming Mouse 2007 Edition - £39.68
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/126433



Plus a 500GB SATA I already have spare at home

Sum total not including gaming keyboard or mouse = around £700

[Naaman]

Personally I'm a bit leery of e-buyer, they're fine until something goes wrong.

Anyway;

Processor, Unless you're running a lot of media software a quad core is a tad overkill. Save a bit and get a Core2 Duo, the quads use the same socket so you can always upgrade later. - http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Intel-Core-2-Duo-E7500-S775-293-GHz-1066MHz-3MB-Cache-11x-Multiplier-Retail

Motherboard, MSI are good middle range but pedestrian boards. I'd generally go with Asus, Gigabyte or Abit - http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Abit-IP35-Pro-XE-iP35-Express-S-775-PCI-E-(x16)-DDR2-1066-667-800-SATA-II-SATA-RAID-ATX

Graphics - If you can stretch to another £30+ then a 260 is going to be far better value - http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/896MB-EVGA-GTX-260-SSC-PCI-E-20-(x16)-Mem-2106-MHz-GPU-626-MHz-192-Cores-2-x-DL-DVI-HDTV

Memory - the rest of the kit supports it, pay a little more and get 1066

Case - Similar price point, no window but honkin' great fan - http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Xclio-Propeller-Midi-Tower-Case-with-36cm-Quiet-Fan-on-Side-Pane-w-o-PSU

PSU - Don't scrimp on the PSU, please. Modualr makes it far easier to keep the case tidy http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/520W-Coolermaster-Real-Power-M520-Modular-PSU-2xPCI-E-80-Efficiency

Two keyboards?

Finally get a decent CPU cooler, this one's fantastic http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Akasa-AK-965-x3-Copper-Heatpipe-Cooler-Intel-Core2Quad-Duo-with-92mm-side-blow-fan-Intel-push-pin and you'll want some thermal paste http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Arctic-Silver-5-Thermal-Compound-for-CPU-and-Chipset-Coolers-35-gram

[Shotz]

Thanks for the reply Naam.

As far as processor goes, I'm looking to go as far as I can on the money I have for now, to reduce the need for improvement in the future. If i had the income, 64bit would be on the cards, so in my opinion, quad core would withstand the pure abuse I could throw at it for a while, until upgrade time came about. Would you really recommend Core2 Duo until then? I'm really out of touch with the desktop world lately, so I don't know what would be best. I have always heard good things about Gigabyte, but had a recommendation otherwise on the cheapness for efficiency of that motherboard, is it worth looking to one of the other brands?

With similar regard to the case and fan, I was taking the student approach to aesthetics/price with the case, and hoping for a window and decent airflow for a fairly decent price. I understand entirely the need for a good PSU, I was just hoping a stock PSU would be good enough. Is this not generally the case?

The graphics card you had suggested was one I had looked at, it was purely monetary reasons I had opted against it. I shall have to run up a new total with your suggestions, as other factors such as food, drink and rent do come into the money I have to spend, unfortunately.

The 2 keyboards is student laziness, and the inability to get out of bed between watching episodes of TV late at night. The keyboard is my early birthday present, and for that reason is not included in the price, I hope that answers the question.

(Also, I must admit my fear/newbieness towards thermal paste. I did intend to buy dome, but I'll look into it and how to apply it properly before I start applying it)

Thanks for your guidance. It is much appreciated.

[Shotz]

Also, with reference to your comment about memory, is there any particular specifications to tend towards? (For instance I'm look at one that states 5-6-6-18 under latency timing and I do not truly understand what that means).

I do not honestly mind spending extra money for it to be worth it, I'm just tryig to avoid paying over the odds for an over powerful computer now, or to avoid the need to upgrade this machine in the future.

Also, I feel I should state I do a lot of .avi to .rm or .rar converting, if that's going to affect things.

Thanks so much for the help though. 

[Naaman]

Thanks for the reply Naam.

As far as processor goes, I'm looking to go as far as I can on the money I have for now, to reduce the need for improvement in the future. If i had the income, 64bit would be on the cards, so in my opinion, quad core would withstand the pure abuse I could throw at it for a while, until upgrade time came about. Would you really recommend Core2 Duo until then? I'm really out of touch with the desktop world lately, so I don't know what would be best. I have always heard good things about Gigabyte, but had a recommendation otherwise on the cheapness for efficiency of that motherboard, is it worth looking to one of the other brands?

Unless you're running multiple processor thrashing apps at the same time (Movie and media generation are normally prime culprits) then it's rarely necessary  for a Quad core, a Duo is sufficient and can save a few quid into the bargain. Whichever one you choose (and it is your choice ) make sure you get either a Wolfdale (Core 2) or Yorkfield (Quad) as they're built on the 45nm process making them cooler to run.

As for board brands, retail MSI is the sort I'd put in my mothers machine. They are good for everyday use but are not so good in a gaming rig, comparing the boards on Scan the Abit one I posted has a slightly smaller footprint, more PCIe sockets, better board cooling, supports 1066 DDR2 and can only have 8Gb of RAM instead of 16. It's the same Intel core chipset and cheaper. The Abit is much better for both performance and value
The Abit - http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Abit-IP35-Pro-XE-iP35-Express-S-775-PCI-E-(x16)-DDR2-1066-667-800-SATA-II-SATA-RAID-ATX
The MSI - http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/MSI-P45-Neo-F-iP45-S-775-PCI-E-20-(x16)-DDR2-667-800-SATA-II-ATX

With similar regard to the case and fan, I was taking the student approach to aesthetics/price with the case, and hoping for a window and decent airflow for a fairly decent price.

I'll admit I'm heartily indifferent about windows in cases, but like airflow . Bigger fans means you can get more air with less noise, maybe this one? http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/CiT-1003-Black-Gaming-Case-No-Psu-14cm-Side-Fan
 

I understand entirely the need for a good PSU, I was just hoping a stock PSU would be good enough. Is this not generally the case?

Short answer - no.
Long answer - Hell no.
Longer answer - They tend to use the cheapest POS PSUs that they can get their hands on.
The Xclio stuff are good, under the radar, brand for PSUs. They're made with the same components and at the same place as Antecs,

I've also suggested modular as that makes the internals a lot neater\better airflow.
The graphics card you had suggested was one I had looked at, it was purely monetary reasons I had opted against it. I shall have to run up a new total with your suggestions, as other factors such as food, drink and rent do come into the money I have to spend, unfortunately.

Fair enough, it's just that the 9800 is just a rehash of the 8800GT chipset. Most of the 9 series were damp squibs performance wise.

The 2 keyboards is student laziness, and the inability to get out of bed between watching episodes of TV late at night. The keyboard is my early birthday present, and for that reason is not included in the price, I hope that answers the question.

Fair enough, try casting your eye here http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Logitech-Cordless-Desktop-Wave-Pro, the Wave is a really comfortable keyboard and the Mouse, while looking odd, is comfy and very programmable (as is the keyboard). If you have access to a big PC seller take a trip down there, what looks good on screen can be wrist crippling when you get to play with them, the stores normally have a demo model on display.

(Also, I must admit my fear/newbieness towards thermal paste. I did intend to buy dome, but I'll look into it and how to apply it properly before I start applying it)

Plenty of demos on the net and a very simple task. Pop into your newsagents for a can of lighter fluid as you'll need it to clean thermal pad off the heatsink

Also, with reference to your comment about memory, is there any particular specifications to tend towards? (For instance I'm look at one that states 5-6-6-18 under latency timing and I do not truly understand what that means).

As for the memory - unless you plan to overclock it doesn't matter what the latency numbers are, just use a good brand (OCZ, Corsair or Crucial)

Also, I feel I should state I do a lot of .avi to .rm or .rar converting, if that's going to affect things.

Only if you're doing two or three at a time while playing games.

[Twylyte]

At last something I understand in this conversation!
I have that keyboard (but with wire) and once you get used to the new layout it's really solid and comfy.
You also have to get used to F1 being where F2 used to be because of the curvature of the keyboard. But that's onlky takes a little time.
For gaming I don't like wireless only because wired loses the connection less. So I have this version in wired but with a wireless mouse.

John can tell you what mouse I have but for BGs some programable buttons makes for quicker gaming.

Mark
(see told ya I was a tech head!!!)

[Naaman]

John can tell you what mouse I have but for BGs some programable buttons makes for quicker gaming.

You've got the Logitech Revolution MX; 5 buttons and 2 wheels. But don't forget that the simple key combos (ALT or CTRL + something) can be mapped to any of the extra buttons on the keyboard, if you want more then you'll probably looking at something like the Nostromo N52 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Belkin-SPEEDPAD-NOSTROMO-N52-TE/dp/B0010YL6ZS/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1237999624&sr=8-1.

[Shotz]

Unless you're running multiple processor thrashing apps at the same time (Movie and media generation are normally prime culprits) then it's rarely necessary  for a Quad core, a Duo is sufficient and can save a few quid into the bargain. Whichever one you choose (and it is your choice Wink) make sure you get either a Wolfdale (Core 2) or Yorkfield (Quad) as they're built on the 45nm process making them cooler to run.

Generally, it'll probably be playing a game, and having a movie going on the other screen, maybe work open in the background, and Firefox. Or if no movies open, then it'll probably be iTunes instead (my guilty little secret). Also, when it says on Scan "Heatsink:   Active (With Heat Sink Fan) " does that mean it comes with a heatsink and I won't need to worry about http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Akasa-AK-965-x3-Copper-Heatpipe-Cooler-Intel-Core2Quad-Duo-with-92mm-side-blow-fan-Intel-push-pin ? I'm a little confused there.

I changed my board for the Duo you suggested. I couldn't find any mention about being a Wolfdale, but it mentioned the 45nm process so am I to assume that's what I'm after?

maybe this one? http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/CiT-1003-Black-Gaming-Case-No-Psu-14cm-Side-Fan

Wow, I like that a lot! It's definately replaced my other one. I like that even more than the Galaxy iii.

Short answer - no.
Long answer - Hell no.
Longer answer - They tend to use the cheapest POS PSUs that they can get their hands on.
The Xclio stuff are good, under the radar, brand for PSUs. They're made with the same components and at the same place as Antecs,

Haha, I think I got the point about going against a stock PSU then I chose the Coolermaster you originally linked to, I did look at the Xclio on Scan, but they were very expensive.

Fair enough, it's just that the 9800 is just a rehash of the 8800GT chipset. Most of the 9 series were damp squibs performance wise.

I honestly don't really know with graphics cards these days. I get very confused very quickly! That said, the one you linked to said about preorder, is it a new board to be coming out?

If you have access to a big PC seller take a trip down there, what looks good on screen can be wrist crippling when you get to play with them, the stores normally have a demo model on display.

For gaming I don't like wireless only because wired loses the connection less. So I have this version in wired but with a wireless mouse.

I understand your point entirely Mark. You're spot on with the wired preferences, as I feel the same way. That's why I was looking to get a wired one for gamin/working, and the wireless one with the built in track pad was for when I'm laying around in bed etc. Or if one day I set up a media PC, I could probably move it onto that. I got the chance to use the Razer keyboard I originally chose today in my local LAN cafe, it is very flat, even with the legs up. I've since chosen the Logitech G11, not quite as nice as its big brother the G15 but I like it more now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF5DmIfhUqA if you ignore the marketing hype around it, it's a tempting board in my opinion.

As for the memory - unless you plan to overclock it doesn't matter what the latency numbers are, just use a good brand (OCZ, Corsair or Crucial)

I've looked into latencies and think I understand them a bit more. The part of my degree about processor code and how it uses memory is actually starting to help me in a practical use! Haha. I revised my choice, and there was 2 similar 1066s between scan and ebuyer, but this was cheaper, with a better latency http://www.ebuyer.com/product/148816

Only if you're doing two or three at a time while playing games.

It's usually in a batch of 5 or so while I'm watching a movie, or a big lot of 10 or so while I am asleep.

Thanks for all your help Naam and Mark, it has been a big help, and a guide.

This is what I think I have decided on as my final shopping list now... (although I don't know where the extra £80 has come from!)

Intel Core 2 Duo, E7500, S775, 2.93GHz, 1066MHz, 3MB Cache, 11x Multiplier, 65W, Retail - £117.29
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Intel-Core-2-Duo-E7500-S775-293-GHz-1066MHz-3MB-Cache-11x-Multiplier-Retail

Abit IP35 Pro XE, V1 iP35 Express, S 775, PCI-E (x16), DDR2 1066/667/800, SATA II, SATA RAID, ATX - £68.87
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Abit-IP35-Pro-XE-iP35-Express-S-775-PCI-E-(x16)-DDR2-1066-667-800-SATA-II-SATA-RAID-ATX

896MB EVGA GTX 260 SSC, Mem 2106 MHz, GPU 626 MHz, 192 Cores, 2 x DL DVI/HDTV - £137.15
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/896MB-EVGA-GTX-260-SSC-PCI-E-20-(x16)-Mem-2106-MHz-GPU-626-MHz-192-Cores-2-x-DL-DVI-HDTV

Corsair 4Gb (2x2GB) DDR2 1066MHz/PC2-8500 XMS2 - £42
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/148816

520W Coolermaster Real Power M520 Modular PSU - £62.89
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/520W-Coolermaster-Real-Power-M520-Modular-PSU-2xPCI-E-80-Efficiency

Seagate 160GB Hard Drive SATAII 7200rpm 8MB Cache - £31.68
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/149458

LG Electronics Blu-Ray & HD-DVD-Rom Combo 16x DVDRW Black - £65.92
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/139985

CiT 1003 Black Gaming Case No Psu 14cm Side Fan - £27.31
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/CiT-1003-Black-Gaming-Case-No-Psu-14cm-Side-Fan

Asus VH222H 22" Widescreen True HD LCD Monitor - Black - £145.99
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?ASU-VH222

Logitech G11 Gaming Keyboard - £37.99
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/119595
( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF5DmIfhUqA )

Keysonic Black Wireless 2.4Ghz HTPC Media Keyboard with Integrated Touch-Pad - £27.98
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/139757

Akasa AK-965 x3 Copper Heatpipe Cooler Intel Core2Quad/Duo with 92mm side blow fan - £13.79
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Akasa-AK-965-x3-Copper-Heatpipe-Cooler-Intel-Core2Quad-Duo-with-92mm-side-blow-fan-Intel-push-pin

Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound for CPU and Chipset Coolers - 3.5 gram - £4.95
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Arctic-Silver-5-Thermal-Compound-for-CPU-and-Chipset-Coolers-35-gram

Sum total = £783.81

[Naaman]

Also, when it says on Scan "Heatsink:   Active (With Heat Sink Fan) " does that mean it comes with a heatsink and I won't need to worry about http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Akasa-AK-965-x3-Copper-Heatpipe-Cooler-Intel-Core2Quad-Duo-with-92mm-side-blow-fan-Intel-push-pin ? I'm a little confused there.

A boxed, retail CPU does come with a fan but it's a rather anemic affair. This is what you get > http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Intel-Original-Heat-Sink-Fan-for-Socket-1366-Core-i7-Nahelem-CPU-upto-i7-965-Copper-Base-Alu-fin-OEM.

The other one has a much larger surface area, heatpipes to transfer the heat better throughout the fins and a bigger fan (better cooling and lower noise) that is held in place on rubber "shock absorbers" for even less noise I use it in my machine and have also used it in a couple of other build and had no complaints yet.


And here's a quick "How To" on applying thermal paste http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7rPqCvCt0g&feature=related

[Shotz]

A boxed, retail CPU does come with a fan but it's a rather anemic affair. This is what you get > http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Intel-Original-Heat-Sink-Fan-for-Socket-1366-Core-i7-Nahelem-CPU-upto-i7-965-Copper-Base-Alu-fin-OEM.

The other one has a much larger surface area, heatpipes to transfer the heat better throughout the fins and a bigger fan (better cooling and lower noise) that is held in place on rubber "shock absorbers" for even less noise Smiley I use it in my machine and have also used it in a couple of other build and had no complaints yet.

Aha, ok that makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up.

And thanks for the video too. I watched some of his other videos as well, and feel a bit more confident about my choices.

[Twylyte]

I bought that weird looking mouse with buttons. It glows blue!
I'll let you know how it works.

It's a new toy I gotta have it!
mark